Posts by Jeremy Bravo

A sweet post! Yes they may quote from Gray's that there is a diffeerence in cranial capacity, but the inference that that makes women dumber than men is ALL THEIR OWN. I love it (hate it) when they quote a source correctly and then extrapolate from it all sorts of wacky sh*t and make it seem like the original source is still saying it!!

to quote JT:

you gotta love it

Jer.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

Jeremy Bravo

Hi Tatoogirl,

Here's my two cents,

I, just like you, spent time studying with the witnesses. I never took the step to get baptized because I took the time to investigate why I was getting all sorts of red flags going up in my head. After investigating, I knew it wasn't the religion for me.

Based on my experiences, here is my number one recomendation: source their quotes. They make a lot of assertions and speculations about a whole range of ideas that are absolutely baseless. Many of their stuff starts with "Many scholars agree..." or "A prominent historian once said..." which works to get a point across to you that cannot be backed up by anyone. Also, if they DO source a quote, it often happens that they misquote the person to make it seem like they are in agreement, but in fact they are opposed. If you wish, ANYONE on this board can direct you to sites dealing with these misrepresentations.

One area to be especially careful is their 1914 and Times of the End teachings. The organization will go to great lengths to have you believe that 1914 was a special date in the return of Christ. Reasearch this area carefully and be sure that you have VERY GOOD reason to believe what they are teaching you on this issue; don't take their word for it simply because they've been honest to you about other things.

It may seem as though everyone here is trying to persuade you that the JW's are an Evil Empire. Many here have good reason to belive this, but the one thing you will find here and NOT in the Empire is that we have nothing to hide. PLease feel free to ask any and all questions you may have and we will do our best to answer honestly.

Jer.

"When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. Life is a relationship to the whole." - Bruce Lee.

16

This is so SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

by JT in

jw
friends

http://www.greatcrowd.com/159ubb/forum22/html/000148.html .

you know it got to be pretty bad when your faith has so many rules you got to carry around a "cheatsheet" just to keep up.

and what do you do if something comes up and it ain't on the list?.

Jeremy Bravo

JT,

Nice find...

If this is the way things are gonna be in the "New System" then you can count me O-U-T.

Jer.

"When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. Life is a relationship to the whole." - Bruce Lee.

23

The Last Days in the 14th Century

by JanH in

jw
friends

the last days in the 14th century .

all through recorded history there have been people who have pointed to the calamities, horrors and disasters in the world, and preached that this signified an imminent end of the world.

this isnt even unique to christianity, which started off with strong millennial expectations in the 1st century, and for the most part retains the same expectations almost 2000 years later.

Jeremy Bravo

JanH,

Excellent work on this post. The point that stands out the most is the comparison between the population growth of the 14th and 20th centuries. Any species of life thrives under good conditions, the indicator being GROWTH. To show that the world population has QUADRUPLED during the "time of the end" shows little reason to believe that things are that bad out there in the "world."

Jer.

20

New Book, a Powerhouse

by Maximus in

jw
friends

i've received numerous questions asking for documentation of issues raised on this board.

some threads have gems that get developed, then buried, and someone raises the same question.

cd roms whirr.. for some ray franz is more than sufficient, others also enjoy the perspective of "apocalypse delayed" by trained historian james penton, which was vital to me personally.

Jeremy Bravo

Maximus,

I have been wondering if a book like you had described had ever been written; something definitive that gets down to the issue of proving the falsehood of the organization UNDENIABLY. I don't know if you can go into further detail, but how deeply will it delve into the history of the Org.? Will it confirm any of Rutherford's (or his predecessors/succesors) indiscretions or will it deal simply with Watchtower articles and policies?

I'm sure I'd love to read it, no matter what's in it.

Jer.

"When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. Life is a relationship to the whole." - Bruce Lee.

9

Threat's and intimidation

by Norm in

jw
friends

doing research about children slaves i remembered a watchtower article from the early sixties.

it had the title:.

in this article the watchtower society really take the gloves off and give us a glimpse of its real personality, an excellent reflection of the very god they worship.

Jeremy Bravo

Norm,

As always, a great post. I always keep an eye out for the research you present and comment on. When I was studying with the Dubs 3 years ago, I remember these types of articles coming out now and then, only not with the same "ferocity" used back in '62.

These articles were a big reason I left, because I was torn between my faith and the fact that the WTS had never proved one necessary premise: that they are God's organization and that following their words is equivalent to following God. Much research into works similar to yours proved that they cannot now or ever prove that assertion.

Jer.

8

Most here should find this funny

by Jeremy Bravo in

jw
friends

this is an exact copy of the letter given to me by the guy who was conducting my jw studies.

he gave it to me after i told him i no longer wanted to study with the jw's, in part because of their failed predictions and doctrinal changes.. .

but have not some of the beliefs of jehovahs witnesses undergone adjustments over the years?

Jeremy Bravo

Hi everyone,

My contact, I'll call him "Mark", gave me a printed copy of (I assume) a society article off of one of his CD's. I should have included the heading that came with it:

"jv 708-9 31 How Chosen and Led by God."

Since I really don't know what this means, I did not include it. Maybe some of you can tell me.

Jer.

8

Most here should find this funny

by Jeremy Bravo in

jw
friends

this is an exact copy of the letter given to me by the guy who was conducting my jw studies.

he gave it to me after i told him i no longer wanted to study with the jw's, in part because of their failed predictions and doctrinal changes.. .

but have not some of the beliefs of jehovahs witnesses undergone adjustments over the years?

Jeremy Bravo

This is an exact copy of the letter given to me by the guy who was conducting my JW studies. He gave it to me after I told him I no longer wanted to study with the JW's, in part because of their failed predictions and doctrinal changes.

But have not some of the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses undergone adjustments over the years? If they were truly chosen and led by God and if their teachings were backed by Scriptural authority to begin with, why would such changes be necessary?
How Jehovah leads his people
Those who make up the one true Christian organization today do not have angelic revelations or divine inspiration. But they do have the inspired Holy Scriptures, which contain revelations of God’s thinking and will. As an organization and individually, they must accept the Bible as divine truth, study it carefully, and let it work in them. (1 Thess 2:13) But how do they arrive at the correct understanding of God’s Word?
The Bible itself says: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Gen 40:8) If in their study of the Scriptures a certain passage is difficult to understand, they must search to find other inspired passages that shed light on the subject. Thus they let the Bible interpret itself, and from this they endeavor to understand “the pattern” of truth set forth in God’s Word (2 Tim 1:13). Jehovah leads or guides them to such understanding by means of his holy spirit. But to get the guidance of that spirit, they must cultivate its fruitage, not grieve or work against it, and keep responsive to its proddings. (Gal 5:22,23,25; Eph 4:30). Moreover, by zealously applying what they learn, they keep building their faith, as a basis for gaining clearer and clearer understanding of how they must do God’s will in the world of which they are no part. – Luke 17:5; Phil 1:9,10.
Jehovah has always led his people to clearer understanding of his will. (Ps 43:3) Just how he has guided them may be illustrated this way: If a person has been in a dark room for a long period of time, is it not best if he is exposed to light gradually? Jehovah has exposed his people to the light of truth in a similar manner; he has enlightened them progressively. (Compare John 16:12,13) It has been as the proverb says: “The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.” – Prov 4:18

Jehovah’s dealings with his chosen servants in Bible times confirm that clear understanding of his will and purpose comes gradually. Thus, Abraham did not fully understand how Jehovah’s purpose in connection with the “seed” would work out. (Gen 12:1-3,7; 15:2-4; compare Heb 11:8) Daniel did not grasp the final outcome of the prophecies he recorded. (Dan 12:8,9) Jesus, when on earth, admitted that he did not know the day and hour that the present system of things would end. (Matt 24:36) The apostles did not at first understand that Jesus’ Kingdom would be heavenly, that it was not to be established in the first century, and that even Gentiles may inherit it. – Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6,7; 10:9-16, 34, 35; 2 Tim 4:18; Rev 5:9,10

It should not surprise us that in modern times too, Jehovah has often led his people as a progressive organization, gradually enlightening them as to bible truths. It is not the truths themselves that change. Truth remains truth. Jehovah’s will and purpose, as outlined in the Bible, remain fixed. (Isa 46:10) But their understanding of these truths gets progressively clearer “at the proper time,” Jehovah’s due time. (Matt 24:45; compare Dan 12:4,9) At times, because of human error or misguided zeal, their viewpoint may need to be adjusted.
For example, at various times in the modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses, their zeal and enthusiasm for the vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty have led to premature expectations as to when the end of Satan’s wicked system of things would come. (Ezek 38:21-23) But Jehovah has not revealed in advance the exact time. (Acts 1:7) Hence, Jehovah’s people have had to adjust their views in this matter.
Such adjustments in viewpoint do not mean that God’s purpose has changed. Nor do they suggest that the end of this system is necessarily a long way off. On the contrary, the fulfillment of Bible prophecies concerning “the conclusion of the system of things” confirms the nearness of the end. (Matt 24:3) Well, does the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses have had some premature expectations mean that they are not being led by God? Not any more than the disciples’ question about the imminence of the Kingdom in their day meant that they were not chosen and led by God! – Acts 1:6; compare Acts 2:47; 6:7.
Why are Jehovah’s Witnesses so sure that they have the true religion? Because they believe and accept what the Bible says as to the identifying marks of true worshippers. Their modern-day history, as discussed in earlier chapters of this publication, shows that, not just as individuals but as an organization, they meet the requisites: They loyally advocate the Bible as God’s sacred Word of truth (John 17:17); they keep completely separate from worldly affairs (Jas 1:27; 4:4); they bear witness to the divine name, Jehovah, and proclaim God’s Kingdom as mankind’s only hope. (Matt 6:9; 24:14; John 17:26); and they genuinely love each other. – John 13:34, 35.

I was given this sometime in late 1998. I looked at it and damn near threw it in the trash because it made me sick. Luckily I kept it and posted it on this board for all to get a chuckle.

Who else has gotten this crap from their higher-ups when they were having doubts? I'd be interested to see what other canned defense essays they have out there.

Jer.

200

How Many States / Countrys Are Represented Here?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i am from houston texas myself.

Jeremy Bravo

Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.